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There’s a few things to pick at in this hagiography.“the most terrible demonstration of the ultimate survival risk of statelessness,”The notion that a fully-armed Israel in 1939 would have prevented or mitigated the slaughter is wishful thinking.“Ben-Gurion met strong resistance when he pressed for a maximum effort to secure an independent state in Palestine. the immensely prestigious Chaim Weizmann, who valued his easy access to the halls of the mighty in Britain as elsewhere, preferred continued British control”And yet “in early 1947,” Ben-Gurion tried to persuade Ernest Bevin to keep the British in Palestine. “Ben-Gurion wanted British rule to continue because the Haganah was not ready for a war with the Arabs.

His goal was to gain time. In July 1947 he was still talking about the possibility of ‘international supervison’ instead of independence, estimating that this supervision could last for ‘years'” (One Palest. 493)Although there is no doubt that the Yishuv faced insurmountable obstacles to creating their Jewish state, not the least of which was the native Palestinian populace that had to be removed for its sake, Ben-Gurion didn’t want independence from the British until after the Arab threat was removed. And as Morris made clear in ‘Birth of the P. Refugee Problem Revisited’, the Yishuv leaders talked among themselves of the British doing the removal in any population transfer while discussing the Peel Commission. Direct me to the relevant source where I can learn all about the planned logistics of evacuating all the Jews from E. Europe and repelling a German invasion without British help if only the Arabs and Brits were chased out sooner.Of course there are too many variables in discussing what-if scenarios.

That was the point of “wishful thinking.” Israel could not have guaranteed the survival of its people had the Germans invaded from Sinai, so the Yishuv would still need British protection which is what actually happened. Hitler wanted to exile the Jews to Palestine, but couldn’t because the British wouldn’t let us in. A Jewish government would have prevented the Holocaust.Obama is gaining popularity by having our forces kill prominent Arab enemies, but just as Israel has learned, every time they’ve killed a terrorist leader, someone else has replaced him.Nato governed by France and England led the forces in Libya, but Obama seems to be getting credit for the attack. He’s still cautious about taking credit, however, because we don’t know where Libya is going.The military wanted the surge in Afghanistan—I don’t know if they were right or wrong.I also don’t know if we’ve done well in Afghanistan, but I do know the American people would have been furious with Bush if after we were attacked, he didn’t take some kind of military action. Hitler hated Jews, but there is no indication that his goal was to kill every one.

Once he fulfilled his goal of removing Jews from society, then he either had to exile us or kill us.I don’t think murder was his original goal, and he never put his name on any extermination orders. He left that to underlings. He once even had a crush on a Jewish woman.True, survival in Israel before the war ended would have been difficult, but survival after the war was difficult, too.The Israelis turned the desert into farmland, won wars in which they were greatly outnumbered, and managed to get weapons from countries that didn’t even like them.It was never easy.

Of course, pre-war Jews wouldn’t have had memory of the Holocaust as an incentive to survive as Jews did after the war.Some may have been more like the skinny, spoiled, pale-faced over pampered Jewish lefty morons who spend their lives criticizing Israelis who’s feet they aren’t fit to kiss.Jewish leaders in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising complained about that kind of Jew, too. The kind that would have survived the Ghetto if they only could have brought their maid and butlers with them. Beatrix, Hitler sought out and killed Jews in every country he invaded,or was allied with. He pressureD the Italians to deliver up the Jews, but they resisted for quite a while.

The Japanese had no interest at all in his lunacy,and let Jews take refuge in Kobe.Saying ` If there was a jewish state.` is like saying `If napoleon had had nuclear weapons.` You need all sorts of other things to bring a viable state into being.It took the political movements of those times,a couple of world wars to bring down all those empires,and who knows what else.To prevent the Holocaust would have taken a different history altogether. I’m not an apologist for Hitler, but I see another possibility.Hitler wasn’t German and yet in order to satisfy his need for power, he wanted to lead Germany, a power pack with a military history, rather than his native Austria known for its waltzes.Germany was a diverse nation in serious economic trouble, with Communists, Nazis, Socialists, Democrats, rich, poor, working, middle, and upper-class all embroiled in a fight for supremacy. The only thing that united the German people was their hatred of Jews.Hitler undoubtedly was prejudiced, but his vaunted hatred of the Jews may have been mainly a ploy to achiever power. Initially, he did try to exile Europe’s Jews, but no one would accept them in any number.

That’s when the extermination started.Hitler never put his name on any extermination orders, and his actions may have stemmed from the fact that his back was against the wall. I don’t think he lost sleep overthe Holocaust, but extermination may not have been his original intention.The idea of a Jewish nation had been floating around since at least 1917, and we don’t know what might have happened if England had fulfilled her promise. I love the fact that a commenter on a Jewish website is telling us the Hitler’s strategy of extermination – a strategy he continued and intensified in the last year of the war, when Germany was losing and really needed every man at the front – was sort of forced into it because he back was against the wall.Did the German people, fractured as it was, have a common “enemy” (in their own mind) in the Jews?

And Hitler was their flagbearer. Otherwise he wouldn’t have had the support he had among the public.You seem to be arguing that Hitler was better than the German public. I think history is clear that he was the same, or worse.Also, you need to read some more history. It’s quite clear that although most of the world (shamefully, America among them) didn’t accept Jewish refugees from Germany in the early years, or later from conquered or soon-to-be conquered states, Hitler hardly made it easy for them to leave. The Nuremburg Laws stripped them of both citizenship and human rights, like freedom of movement; there’s a reason that recalcitrant immigration officials all across the world who gave visas to Jews are venerated as heroes. I suggest “In the Garden of Beasts”. I personally found it a dull book with dull, annoying protoganists, but as a survey of Hitler and the Nazi Party’s policy towards Jews in what is generally accepted as the beginning – 1933 – it’s not bad, and it’s a quick read.The creation of Israel at an earlier may have mitigated some of the casualties.

But the wholesale murder of European Jewry was going to progress either way, although there’s something to be said for the idea that a Britain and perhaps France that created an Israel in the inter-war period would be muscular enough to head Hitler off at the pass, making 1930’s Germany just another country throwing out their Jews – a not uncommon occurrence even today. Unfortunately, WWI broke their backs, so I suppose it’s a moot point.

I got the gist of what the author was trying to convey, but the piece just didnt flow very well.more so the ending which seemed abrupt.As pointed out in this piece, Ben-Gurion was the one that indirectly instituted this “challenge to the new state’s monopoly of force” – from within is ALWAYS met with a strong response from the IDF. This “imperative of possessing state power” (and projecting it) has not worked out so well when using it against their own citizens (Altalena,Yamit,Armona,Gaza) and unfortunately, still seems like state policy. Hitler was not superman. He was a deeply disturbed young man with a schtick. If we believe that he decided to kill all the Jews and he never deviated from this and nothing could have stopped him, and the German people were simply innocent victims of his “golden” tongue, then the next time we get a pathological monster who wants to kill us, we Jews had better just line up on the edge of the cliff and jump over the side like a bunch of lemmings.People aren’t the way that Hitler is being depicted. They do deviate from their goals, they are manipulative, they can be manipulated. And he definitely achieved unity among a deeply divided German people by using their hatred of Jews.

Of course they didn’t know that this would lead to 6 million deaths. But I don’t think, Hitler, this moral moron knew that at first, either.Is there anyone out there shaking in his boots over Ahmadinejad?

Do you really think Hitler was any less ridiculous than he? If Israel had been established as a Jewish nation in 1917 as the result of the Balfour Declaration, they would have started their nation while most of the Arab nations were still under colonial control and they probably would have had a peaceful beginning free of suicide bombers and frequent Arab attacks.WW2, would have started almost 25 years later, and perhaps Israel could have relied on allies and friendly nations to take the overflow of German Jews when they were exiled.

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And having expelled their own Jews, the idea of exterminating the rest of Europe’s Jews might never have occurred to Hitler and the Nazis.Nazis considered Jews inferior, but they considered Poles inferior and they didn’t attempt to exterminate all the Polish people. And I think the fact that Hitler never put his name on any orders that led to the extermination of Jews is significant.Deep down, people like Hitler are afraid of us.

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